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The troll list. AKA irritating players.


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#41 Gaius Marius

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 07:50 AM

The description of these things sounds too broad to me. It sounds like these are simply a list of things that you don't like. That's fine to have a list of those things, but I think it obfuscates the word troll even further to put them all under that same label. Besides, how, exactly, are "shufflers" different from people who do not attack? And now you mention adding draw refusers to your list. The word troll will cease to mean anything when it means everything.

One other thing. You have a thread here which tends to be attacking of other players, a practice which is expressly spoken against in the Terms and Conditions of the site, besides being also against our own General Suite and Forum Rules, so you are walking a tight line. Be careful. While the MT may be sitting on the side for the moment, we are watching. Be further advised that any accusations without proof in an area that the MT does practice in, such as draw refusals, will be hidden.

You admins are so silly.  A troll is just like brainiac said, someone that spends their time playing the game with the intent to win by means other than fairplay.  They can take alot of forms.  As all the views on this thread show, people watch.  Explain this to me.  Why should I have to spend more time uploading a disconnect screanshot when the guy did it to me to cause me to waste time.  The guy wins twice by wasting my time.  Also I can tell that someone refused a draw without asking for points back, nothing wrong with that.  I also am not "attacking" other players.  Attacking someone implies Im threatening them or verbally assaulting them.  I am simply calling people out on their behavior.  Note: people do not say, "Gauis just refuses clearly drawn situations, Gauis disconnected on me, Gauis this, Gauis that.  Did you know nazi gets on the chat room and calls me gayus.  I am not going to screanshot everytime someone harrasses me or does an action that is uncalled for. Public shaming works wonders.  If someone wants to get on this thread and hash it out.  Fine I welcome the challenge.  I will continue to play fair.  Sometimes I will be defensive, sometimes I will be agressive.  For the players that want to wait hours to run in circles, I will keep learning the agressively intelligent way to attack and beat them.  For some players that need to be checked for thier misbehavior, I will run in circles to let them know how it feels.  When they tell me to get more skill and just beat the sandbaggers, I will implore them to do the same.  I feel as if the moderators are doing more harm then good in the recent months.  A game has to last 40 minutes for a draw??????  You could get down to a 10 vrs 9 around a lake situation with no other peices in 15 minutes.  Now I have to play for 25 more minutes to get a draw.  I mean give me a break.


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#42 astros

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 08:15 AM

You admins are so silly.  A troll is just like brainiac said, someone that spends their time playing the game with the intent to win by means other than fairplay.  They can take alot of forms.  As all the views on this thread show, people watch.  Explain this to me.  Why should I have to spend more time uploading a disconnect screanshot when the guy did it to me to cause me to waste time.  The guy wins twice by wasting my time.  Also I can tell that someone refused a draw without asking for points back, nothing wrong with that.  I also am not "attacking" other players.  Attacking someone implies Im threatening them or verbally assaulting them.  I am simply calling people out on their behavior.  Note: people do not say, "Gauis just refuses clearly drawn situations, Gauis disconnected on me, Gauis this, Gauis that.  Did you know nazi gets on the chat room and calls me gayus.  I am not going to screanshot everytime someone harrasses me or does an action that is uncalled for. Public shaming works wonders.  If someone wants to get on this thread and hash it out.  Fine I welcome the challenge.  I will continue to play fair.  Sometimes I will be defensive, sometimes I will be agressive.  For the players that want to wait hours to run in circles, I will keep learning the agressively intelligent way to attack and beat them.  For some players that need to be checked for thier misbehavior, I will run in circles to let them know how it feels.  When they tell me to get more skill and just beat the sandbaggers, I will implore them to do the same.  I feel as if the moderators are doing more harm then good in the recent months.  A game has to last 40 minutes for a draw??????  You could get down to a 10 vrs 9 around a lake situation with no other peices in 15 minutes.  Now I have to play for 25 more minutes to get a draw.  I mean give me a break.

You are defaming people without any evidence, that is slander. Why do you get to decide who plays unfairly without providing any evidence against them? When did you become the moral arbiter of the forums? 

 

Given the sheer number of players you have a problem with you might also want to look at how your actions could be responsible for some of these incidents.


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#43 Gaius Marius

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 08:43 AM

You are defaming people without any evidence, that is slander. Why do you get to decide who plays unfairly without providing any evidence against them? When did you become the moral arbiter of the forums? 

 

Given the sheer number of players you have a problem with you might also want to look at how your actions could be responsible for some of these incidents.

Grow up.  The only way to provide evidence against any of these claims except for disconnects is to video the game.  Im not going to waste my time.  Slander is verbal, libel is printed.  Get it right.  I am not a moral arbiter.  I am not punishing anyone.  I am calling out people for poor sportsmanship.  Look at how many times Sohal posts a disconnector.  Look at the people that comment on here.  People have problems with poor sports.  I will not and refuse to post evidence.  It is a waste of my time.  I am a person with a life and I will not spend a bunch of time posting videogame losers on here.  I will simply post it and if they have a problem with it then let the moderators remove the thread.  I have seen many accusations of disconnectors with no proof.  My actions are responsible for 0 of the incidents.  I dont just harrass people, like nazie does when he gets on the forum and just calls me gayus.  When have I ever harrassed you Astros.  You have spoken arrogently to me in chat and I have told you your acting arrogent but did not lash out at you.  I think you just want to feel high on yourself like your opinion matters.  If you dont like my opinion then dont give me any attention.  Do you deny people are on this game in large numbers that simply wish to waste others time.  Funny, I dont have these problems in a tournament game.  I will continue to post peoples names untill someone stops me.  Also I.P. Freely posted falcon ones setup because he was mad at him for doing time wasting activities and no one had a problem with him doing it.  Also physcopatty posted a list of marshal blitzers and lottoers on his thread, with no evidence.  So sorry your wrong.


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#44 The Prof

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 08:51 AM

 A game has to last 40 minutes for a draw??????  You could get down to a 10 vrs 9 around a lake situation with no other peices in 15 minutes.  Now I have to play for 25 more minutes to get a draw.  I mean give me a break.

 

The rule is that the game must last 40 minutes OR one or both of the players have fewer than 20 pieces remaining in order to have a draw refusal case.  So the example you mentioned would be judged by the MT.



#45 Gaius Marius

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 08:54 AM

how do u show the game took 40 minutes......  Am I suppose to take a screanshot at the beginning of the game.


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#46 astros

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 09:19 AM

Grow up.  The only way to provide evidence against any of these claims except for disconnects is to video the game.  Im not going to waste my time.  Slander is verbal, libel is printed.  Get it right.  I am not a moral arbiter.  I am not punishing anyone.  I am calling out people for poor sportsmanship.  Look at how many times Sohal posts a disconnector.  Look at the people that comment on here.  People have problems with poor sports.  I will not and refuse to post evidence.  It is a waste of my time.  I am a person with a life and I will not spend a bunch of time posting videogame losers on here.  I will simply post it and if they have a problem with it then let the moderators remove the thread.  I have seen many accusations of disconnectors with no proof.  My actions are responsible for 0 of the incidents.  I dont just harrass people, like nazie does when he gets on the forum and just calls me gayus.  When have I ever harrassed you Astros.  You have spoken arrogently to me in chat and I have told you your acting arrogent but did not lash out at you.  I think you just want to feel high on yourself like your opinion matters.  If you dont like my opinion then dont give me any attention.  Do you deny people are on this game in large numbers that simply wish to waste others time.  Funny, I dont have these problems in a tournament game.  I will continue to post peoples names untill someone stops me.  Also I.P. Freely posted falcon ones setup because he was mad at him for doing time wasting activities and no one had a problem with him doing it.  Also physcopatty posted a list of marshal blitzers and lottoers on his thread, with no evidence.  So sorry your wrong.

I guess I did mess up my definitions, I always mix the two up. Sohal uses screenshots when he posts about a disconnector. He has evidence. I agree that there are many poor sports on this site, I have been guilty of that at times myself. My problem with this thread is that you feel you do not need to post evidence, that you are some how above it. You are criticizing people yet providing no merit for your claims.

 

When you played me you swore at me 50 times, a tirade of f-bombs. You also refused a draw but when you made a mistake late in the game and I had won you disconnected. I do not need to post evidence of this. I refuse because I am an important member of the game community. See the problem with that?

 

You want to call me arrogant fine that may be true to a degree. I would say this thread reeks of arrogance that you can accuse people of whatever but do not need to back it up.

 

I also raised issues with psychopatty's thread and I believe that IP's  post was hidden. I am going to leave this thread now. I would suggest being less combative towards your opponents and you may encounter less problems.


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#47 Gaius Marius

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 09:34 AM

I guess I did mess up my definitions, I always mix the two up. Sohal uses screenshots when he posts about a disconnector. He has evidence. I agree that there are many poor sports on this site, I have been guilty of that at times myself. My problem with this thread is that you feel you do not need to post evidence, that you are some how above it. You are criticizing people yet providing no merit for your claims.

 

When you played me you swore at me 50 times, a tirade of f-bombs. You also refused a draw but when you made a mistake late in the game and I had won you disconnected. I do not need to post evidence of this. I refuse because I am an important member of the game community. See the problem with that?

 

You want to call me arrogant fine that may be true to a degree. I would say this thread reeks of arrogance that you can accuse people of whatever but do not need to back it up.

 

I also raised issues with psychopatty's thread and I believe that IP's  post was hidden. I am going to leave this thread now. I would suggest being less combative towards your opponents and you may encounter less problems.

Your attitude right now makes you sound arrogent like your like 19 year old self has so much wisdom for me to gain and that you feel you have the right to instruct someone on how to act on the forum.  I never disconnected on you, or swore at you 50 times.  You are making this up out of thin air.  I guess in an attempt to try and say that I am just saying all the stuff im sayin.  I will do whatever I want, say whatever I want, and type whatever I want unless the moderator team trys and stops me.  I am sick and tired of all the crap on this site.  Its a worthless joke.  But since its the only site that people visit, I am stuck here. I took 6 months away from this site and all I get is a crap site with nothing changing.  I just had a draw refusal which i will post.  But It ruins the enjoyment to just get home from a hard days work and play a fun game.  I should not and will not devote my life to posting screanshots.  Its extra work and I do enough.  Even when I beat you you make excuses of well I had to go, or im tired.  Psh.  I thought you were going to be a fun player to have games with.  I guess your just a pompous arrogant person not worth my time.  As your, Im coming on the thread to correct you, I leave now attitude shows.


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#48 GaryLShelton

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 05:54 PM

how do u show the game took 40 minutes......  Am I suppose to take a screanshot at the beginning of the game.


You submit, as part of any evidence of draw refusal, the defeat details screen. As The Prof said, it's either 40 minutes or less than 20 pieces for each player left that will qualify a game for MT review.

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...604#entry339604

#49 WT Sherman

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 07:57 PM

This list is only useful if you could disconnect prior to start without penalty. Actually I would even take a small penalty. 

 

The slow player (15 sec, and/or runs the clock down) is the worst.  They often beat me because I get frustrated and sometimes lotto just to get it over. Even then they take too much time. I have actually posted "can't you see I'm trying to kill myself? please move it along"

 

Shufflers are the worst. Most shufflers practice the "no attack" offense. Sometimes they can be beat because some refuse to attack any piece and you can mount an attack by moving miners up without them being threatened.

 

Another "unfun" opponent is the blocker. They block all your avenues (with bombs or otherwise) and then refuse to attack themselves. Eventually you can break through but it's costly and takes awhile.

 

Followed by advancers/retreaters (not saying this isn't a gambit, but it's not a strategy.

 

Fortunately a lot of these types of players never make it to the top ranks and you don't see them after a while.



#50 WT Sherman

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 08:52 PM

Case in point. Just played JUNO B

 

Messed around the entire game. Forced me to do all the attacking except for minor pieces and the odd straight up exchange. In doing so often took 15 seconds between moves, and ran the buffer down to 2 minutes.

 

Tricked him as to the location of my spy and he made a move and I took his Marshall. General were already exchanged. 

 

A few moves later and he's lost his spy and It's Marshall, Colonel Major x2 vs Colonel and Major X3. I've actually been beat by better players with these odds. My Marshall and his Colonel are the only pieces exposed, though others have moved.

 

What does Juno B do? Dances his Colonel around for an extended period. I guess he assumes I'm an idiot and with one piece he'll trick me somehow. I'm thinking I might get up and walk around a bit.

 

Some time goes by and finally Juno decided to hit a piece (first one the whole game maybe) and what do you know- it's a bomb.

 

So what does Juno do? Ready?..........................disconnect (of course).



#51 GaryLShelton

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 10:42 PM

You admins are so silly. A troll is just like brainiac said, someone that spends their time playing the game with the intent to win by means other than fairplay.


Gaius, first of all, I'm a moderator not an admin. And what mrbrainiac said, to be precise, was that "Trash talkers, all-day shufflers, draw-refusal behavior should be considered trolling."

Although we might agree that the first two things are annoying, even terribly so, they are not against any written rules and so are, by definition, "fair play". The last thing, however, the draw refusers, are clearly against our rules and therefore cannot be lumped in with the other things without giving clear proof of your contention. You cannot say someone refused a draw without proof or, as I already stated, your post will be hidden. Attacking, despite your claim that it only means physical violence, does include both slander and libel, and so any posts on the subject of draw refusals will be treated accordingly.

If you want to know why we ask for screenshots, Gaius, it's to try and help the site be fair, to give justice. This is our only goal as moderators. Without the evidence of screenshots you would have no chance against unfair play. With it, you at least have the hope of justice. Sure, taking screenshots is work on your part, but by taking them against cheaters, draw refusers, and those that are abusive, you are helping to clean up the site. The refunds are fair to you; and the penalties are fair and long-lasting to the unsportsmanlike player or the guy who chats like a sailor.

Although we cannot fix every problem that arises, without the MT there would be no relief for any of this. You'd have the good old days back again. But let's think about that a second. HmmNess once complained about an 8 or 9 hour game back in those old days because the guy wouldn't stop chasing. There were no rules against even chasing in a line in those days, and all sorts of glitches were all sorts of rampant. And, of course, there were no moderators back then.

The MT is just a group of volunteers trying to exercise fairness as best we can. We have precious little authority and sometimes only spotty help and support from the admins, who wield all the power. So far we've been able to accomplish a lot with the restrictions that we have, and I'm proud to say that the Moderator Team has been, overall, conscientious in its duty and fair in its decisions since I've been here. Are things perfect? Of course not. But we have General Site and Forum Rules that guide us so everyone can reasonably know what to expect.

Our best hope for the site to continue is for everyone to stay as civil with one another as possible. The MT exists to enforce this one objective.
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The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...604#entry339604

#52 Gaius Marius

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 10:55 PM

Gaius, first of all, I'm a moderator not an admin. And what mrbrainiac said, to be precise, was that "Trash talkers, all-day shufflers, draw-refusal behavior should be considered trolling."

Although we might agree that the first two things are annoying, even terribly so, they are not against any written rules and so are, by definition, "fair play". The last thing, however, the draw refusers, are clearly against our rules and therefore cannot be lumped in with the other things without giving clear proof of your contention. You cannot say someone refused a draw without proof or, as I already stated, your post will be hidden. Attacking, despite your claim that it only means physical violence, does include both slander and libel, and so any posts on the subject of draw refusals will be treated accordingly.

If you want to know why we ask for screenshots, Gaius, it's to try and help the site be fair, to give justice. This is our only goal as moderators. Without the evidence of screenshots you would have no chance against unfair play. With it, you at least have the hope of justice. Sure, taking screenshots is work on your part, but by taking them against cheaters, draw refusers, and those that are abusive, you are helping to clean up the site. The refunds are fair to you; and the penalties are fair and long-lasting to the unsportsmanlike player or the guy who chats like a sailor.

Although we cannot fix every problem that arises, without the MT there would be no relief for any of this. You'd have the good old days back again. But let's think about that a second. HmmNess once complained about an 8 or 9 hour game back in those old days because the guy wouldn't stop chasing. There were no rules against even chasing in a line in those days, and all sorts of glitches were all sorts of rampant. And, of course, there were no moderators back then.

The MT is just a group of volunteers trying to exercise fairness as best we can. We have precious little authority and sometimes only spotty help and support from the admins, who wield all the power. So far we've been able to accomplish a lot with the restrictions that we have, and I'm proud to say that the Moderator Team has been, overall, conscientious in its duty and fair in its decisions since I've been here. Are things perfect? Of course not. But we have General Site and Forum Rules that guide us so everyone can reasonably know what to expect.

Our best hope for the site to continue is for everyone to stay as civil with one another as possible. The MT exists to enforce this one objective.

I dont give a rip about your definition of fairplay.  The admins are a joke, they only want to market and make money, Ive figured it out.  It is not fairplay to talk trash, you said there would be consequences but they you just said they are not against the rules and are fairplay.  Makes no sense.  I liked it back when midnightguy was a moderator but they he got tired of all of this bull crap.  I should not have to take 40 minutes to play a game that someone clearly does not want to play.  I dont come here to get people in trouble, I come here to play and have fun.  This site is just a huge cluster.  You set this place up for the harrassers to have all the power.


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#53 GaryLShelton

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 11:24 PM

It is not fairplay to talk trash, you said there would be consequences but they you just said they are not against the rules and are fairplay. Makes no sense.


Gaius, I'd like to say I agree with you on your last sentence and leave it, but I have one quick point.

"Talking trash" which you bring up can mean somewhat different things to different people. Challenging banter back and forth is fine. But there's a line. There's always a line in life. Usually when that line is crossed, you'll see anger on the one side and self control on the other. If one spews out foul language in a game chat, that's not acceptable no matter what you call it.

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...604#entry339604

#54 Gaius Marius

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 04:47 AM

Played Shapesite again.  He did not make one attack.  But after some private conversations with the elite on here I decided to do this approach and it worked.  For anyone who cares, this is how u beat him.  He moves many many peices.  Do not move your big peices.  Move only one big peice, either a 10, 9 or 8.  leave the others stationary.  Use your 2's to find out the peices on his alley ways.  Move your pieces around, only 3 of your peices should move, and just watch him move.  He moves way to many peices.  I just watched him move for 5 minutes and kept track of the peices that moved in my mind.  (I do not write down on paper where he moves because I think thats cheating.)  I used a 6 to take his 5 and 2 4's,  I lost a 6 and a 5 to reveal his 7.  He likes to keep 7's on the alley ways to gaurd his base. I then take an 8 and block one 7 in, and my 10 the other.  Then because the 2 7's were protected by 1 peice.  I took his 7 with my 8.  His 10 took my 8.  I used my 10 to take his 7.  I then had 2 7's to his 8.  I kept my 9 close to the ally way and instantly sent it and an 8 at his pecies.  He had to trade.  I revealed his 8 on the other side of the map.  In about 10 turns it went from even to him having an 8 that i did not have to me having 2 7's with all the good peices traded.  I then had one of my 7's take like 4 of his peices that I remembered moved.  I then had 2 7's and 4 5's that he did not have with all the 6's gone.  Game over.  Also bomb your flag in against him.


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#55 Art.

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 07:48 AM

Gaius shut up



#56 General Eshe

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 10:09 AM

It seems there is alot of anger in this thread. I understand that certain behaviours can be annoying to an experienced player. However we have all been guilty of sub standard behaviour at some point, and many of the definitions in here are very broad.

I have disconnected before after a string of frustrating losses. I have uttered many curses, most of all at myself for making beginners blunders. Usually when I get that angry I realize its time to take a break and remember this is just a game. Perhaps look at my setups and see how they can be improved, and reflect on mistakes im making and plan a way to rectify them. In doing so I often feel much better and ready to tackle the game anew.

When people in this thread start raging over things like defensive play and clock strategy it gets a little out of hand. There are some behaviours that are clearly meant to time waste or harass without any overall strategy, however sometimes setting up a great initial defense leads to a wonderful mid game offense, and other times newer player can be a little 'nervous at the switch' when it comes to making an attack. Also remember Stratego is a game of psychology as much as movement. If you can get into your opponents head, by doing things such as taking an extra 10 seconds a turn, that is acceptable in my opinion as long as you have an overall strategy in mind anyway. Also taking extra time to ponder the most effective move and slowing down your thought process can be a great way to turn around a game you have started poorly in.

I would be much more careful about posting what makes me tick so publicly to potential opponents, lest it be used against me later. Overall however it is important to remember this is just a game, not a real battle with real lives on the line.

Anyway just my 2 cents. I in no way support poor sportsmanship or blatant flaming, but having 20 threads on the first page of the forums complaining about it reflects poorly on the community as a whole. Just remember for every person who is a known jackoff, there are many more beginners who just may not entirely understand the etiquette yet. I personally did not visit the forums until at least 20 to 30 games in, and at first in search of knowledge to improve my game. It wasnt until then I learned the many finer points of the community here and its form of emily post. I have been a victim of disconnectors many times, and can often pinpoint when a disconnect is coming. I try not to let it bug me too much however, I just take my win and move on to the next.
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#57 Art.

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 05:25 AM

Gaius: I will gladly give up my play here to prove that you are a cowardly rat. I tell you not to stop talking badly about other people and then you post a screenshot of me making an amusing and sarcastic greeting to everyone. Have your last laugh but I hope you choke on your cheese, RAT



#58 Gaius Marius

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 05:38 AM

It seems there is alot of anger in this thread. I understand that certain behaviours can be annoying to an experienced player. However we have all been guilty of sub standard behaviour at some point, and many of the definitions in here are very broad.

I have disconnected before after a string of frustrating losses. I have uttered many curses, most of all at myself for making beginners blunders. Usually when I get that angry I realize its time to take a break and remember this is just a game. Perhaps look at my setups and see how they can be improved, and reflect on mistakes im making and plan a way to rectify them. In doing so I often feel much better and ready to tackle the game anew.

When people in this thread start raging over things like defensive play and clock strategy it gets a little out of hand. There are some behaviours that are clearly meant to time waste or harass without any overall strategy, however sometimes setting up a great initial defense leads to a wonderful mid game offense, and other times newer player can be a little 'nervous at the switch' when it comes to making an attack. Also remember Stratego is a game of psychology as much as movement. If you can get into your opponents head, by doing things such as taking an extra 10 seconds a turn, that is acceptable in my opinion as long as you have an overall strategy in mind anyway. Also taking extra time to ponder the most effective move and slowing down your thought process can be a great way to turn around a game you have started poorly in.

I would be much more careful about posting what makes me tick so publicly to potential opponents, lest it be used against me later. Overall however it is important to remember this is just a game, not a real battle with real lives on the line.

Anyway just my 2 cents. I in no way support poor sportsmanship or blatant flaming, but having 20 threads on the first page of the forums complaining about it reflects poorly on the community as a whole. Just remember for every person who is a known jackoff, there are many more beginners who just may not entirely understand the etiquette yet. I personally did not visit the forums until at least 20 to 30 games in, and at first in search of knowledge to improve my game. It wasnt until then I learned the many finer points of the community here and its form of emily post. I have been a victim of disconnectors many times, and can often pinpoint when a disconnect is coming. I try not to let it bug me too much however, I just take my win and move on to the next.

Thanks for the soap box.  The things I am against are clearly troll behavior meant to harrass people.  Many players have private messaged me saying they support me.  You can keep your two cents.


"Everyone pities the weak, jealousy you have to earn."


#59 Gaius Marius

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 05:40 AM

Gaius: I will gladly give up my play here to prove that you are a cowardly rat. I tell you not to stop talking badly about other people and then you post a screenshot of me making an amusing and sarcastic greeting to everyone. Have your last laugh but I hope you choke on your cheese, RAT

Art.  You like to troll and harrass people.  I am a far better player than you.  You lottoed and beat me one time out of many.  You act like your all intelligent and you have so much knowledge.  But you slipped up, you cursed, you broke the rules.  If you try to harrass me I will watch you untill you make a mistake and make you pay for it.  Now you can deal with the punishment.


"Everyone pities the weak, jealousy you have to earn."


#60 Art.

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 06:03 AM

Certainly I can be nice to  you Gaius I always am in discussions with you but I just want you to tone down the drama for the sake of all of us. Please just take a pill and relax we still love you in spite of your built up anger






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