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Trading in Stratego


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#1 Kernel Mustard

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 12:01 AM

Normally I feel like trading  unknown pieces early on in the game is a poor strategy.

 

But I've been doing some thinking and I want to know your opinions.

 

Here is a situation,

 

it's the first move of the game and you've scouted a captain on the left side of your right flank (LS of your RF). Most likely it's protected by something either behind the barrier or underneath it.

 

So, in order to continue the attack on this side, you could

 

A) Attack RS of the RF with a captain

B ) Attack captain with a major

C) Trade captains with a liet behind, then lotto the flank with the liet

D) Attack RS of the RF with a sergeant with plans to scout the piece behind the captain if it attacks the sergeant.

 

Assuming I am trying to continue the attack and I'm not going to choose a more passive approach of blocking off the lane, (and assuming your opponent knows nothing of you and you nothing of your opponent) which do you think is the best choice?

 

If you have a different choice other than the ones I suggested I would be glad to hear it.



#2 papillon

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 12:16 AM

Enigma, the red phone under the cake cover is blinking...


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#3 Kernel Mustard

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 12:28 AM

Enigma, the red phone under the cake cover is blinking...

I want to hear your input too! :)



#4 noblevillain

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 04:12 AM

kinda depends on the situation, for instance if a marsh comes right down broadway early in game (marshall blitz), it might be beneficial to exchange as usually there are a lot of scouts behind the marshall and you could do some damage with lets say a lieu. otherwise agreed, losing material for end game purposes. 



#5 GaryLShelton

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 05:35 AM

Enigma, the red phone under the cake cover is blinking...


If this a reference to the old Derek Flint movies starring James Coburn, then that red phone is finding Enigma in some numerous and pleasant female company. Flint would always be so occupied when the Red phone rang its familiar tune.  It may be ringing in the second pic below....

 

https://encrypted-tb...wTPd2KPepfBzfrA

 

https://encrypted-tb...ROJEq0MQAMA3N2l

 



i77rs4m.jpg

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#6 papillon

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 06:07 AM

If this a reference to the old Derek Flint movies starring James Coburn, then that red phone is finding Enigma in some numerous and pleasant female company. Flint would always be so occupied when the Red phone rang its familiar tune.  It may be ringing in the second pic below....

 

https://encrypted-tb...wTPd2KPepfBzfrA

 

https://encrypted-tb...ROJEq0MQAMA3N2l

Nice, Gary, but Commissioner Gordon is on the line



#7 GaryLShelton

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 06:18 AM

Pap, I can't believe that didn't come to my mind about Batman.  Hey, it's from the 60's too.  You got it with the cake container, though I think Enigma might prefer the Derek Flint idea better.... :)


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#8 papillon

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 09:08 PM

I want to hear your input too! :)

I don't know if i'm the right guy to ask these days... :unsure:



#9 Enigma

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Posted 24 January 2015 - 01:44 PM

Normally I feel like trading  unknown pieces early on in the game is a poor strategy.

 

But I've been doing some thinking and I want to know your opinions.

 

Here is a situation,

 

it's the first move of the game and you've scouted a captain on the left side of your right flank (LS of your RF). Most likely it's protected by something either behind the barrier or underneath it.

 

So, in order to continue the attack on this side, you could

 

A) Attack RS of the RF with a captain

B ) Attack captain with a major

C) Trade captains with a liet behind, then lotto the flank with the liet

D) Attack RS of the RF with a sergeant with plans to scout the piece behind the captain if it attacks the sergeant.

 

Assuming I am trying to continue the attack and I'm not going to choose a more passive approach of blocking off the lane, (and assuming your opponent knows nothing of you and you nothing of your opponent) which do you think is the best choice?

 

If you have a different choice other than the ones I suggested I would be glad to hear it.

 

One main principle of the game is the trade off between material and information.  You sacrifice your own piece only for the purpose of gaining information that you can use to acquire a piece advantage later on in the game (think of it as an investment that should gain value over time).  

 

As a general rule, you never want to sacrifice your own piece without using the information advantage to gain a material advantage later in the game (there are some exceptions to this).  

 

In the example you provided, you sacrificed a scout and learned the location of the captain.  You do NOT want to exchange captains now, because if you do you have lost your scout AND your information advantage.  So, you should either hit the piece next to it with your captain (choice A), or you should hit the captain with a major or colonel (choice B. ) Don't hit the piece next to the captain with your sergeant, because you will be unlikely to acquire any additional useful information.


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#10 GaryLShelton

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Posted 24 January 2015 - 05:21 PM

Thanks once again, Enigma.  I guess Papillon's figured it out.  All we have to do to get your presence is send out the Bat signal in the sky or use the Red phone!   :)


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Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931


#11 Nortrom

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 04:46 PM

Trading an unk. capt for a known capt is not always bad, if you're guaranteed to scout one of the two pieces protecting the capt, while being 95% sure both pieces are worth the investment.

 

Same for major and colo trading. Its not optimal, but might work.


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#12 Art.

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 06:00 PM

marshall's and generals have swapped, the opponent is out of scouts, and you have not moved more than 5 other pieces on board. Both colonels and all 3 majors remain on both sides, perhaps each side has at least 1 captain but not more than 2

What do you do?

NOT- rush up with colonel get hit by the spy 

NOT - move both colonels in the next two moves

NOT - fear lotto?

Let the bombs do the work and start sending lieutenants up as bluffers?

Use seargants/scouts and park them in alleys waiting on his colonel bullrushers?

 

What do the good players do? Of course good players would never have swapped the 2 power pieces early on but for this example what is the best way to save your advantage knowing the opponent only has 5 moved pieces he knows about and you can probably diagnol them all and save them. If you sacrifice a captain on your own side to hope he comes up with 2 colonels to take the same piece, than your colonel and scouts can do a lot of damage while your 2nd colonel sits back and waits for majors that are bluffed out of position. ? Ideas? agreements?



#13 Kernel Mustard

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 09:05 PM

marshall's and generals have swapped, the opponent is out of scouts, and you have not moved more than 5 other pieces on board. Both colonels and all 3 majors remain on both sides, perhaps each side has at least 1 captain but not more than 2

What do you do?

NOT- rush up with colonel get hit by the spy 

NOT - move both colonels in the next two moves

NOT - fear lotto?

Let the bombs do the work and start sending lieutenants up as bluffers?

Use seargants/scouts and park them in alleys waiting on his colonel bullrushers?

 

What do the good players do? Of course good players would never have swapped the 2 power pieces early on but for this example what is the best way to save your advantage knowing the opponent only has 5 moved pieces he knows about and you can probably diagnol them all and save them. If you sacrifice a captain on your own side to hope he comes up with 2 colonels to take the same piece, than your colonel and scouts can do a lot of damage while your 2nd colonel sits back and waits for majors that are bluffed out of position. ? Ideas? agreements?

You could write pages and pages about something like this, but let me just give you a few tid bits of knowledge I'm sure you already know, and keep these things in mind when you play in this situation

 

1) You or your opponent can successfully scout-and-take pieces with either miners or scouts, making it less ideal to be passive in this situation.

2) If your opponent thinks your col is somewhere where it isn't, he may circle your unknown col with a major and a col.

3) Your miners can freely enter his flag if your opponent is under enough pressure, and he thinks your miner isn't a miner.

4) Lottoing unlikely bombs in this situation for a lead may be a good idea, even if it doesn't seem necessary, especially if the pieces can't move without being killed.

 

A great example of #4 is found here https://www.youtube....v=7nS8azXgo5U 

The lottoing I am talking about is at 7:45



#14 cflag

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 05:43 PM

Simply renew of Enigma's nice comment  for all young players/members who logged into this forum the last months.

One main principle of the game is the trade off between material and information.  You sacrifice your own piece only for the purpose of gaining information that you can use to acquire a piece advantage later on in the game (think of it as an investment that should gain value over time).  

 

As a general rule, you never want to sacrifice your own piece without using the information advantage to gain a material advantage later in the game (there are some exceptions to this).  

 

In the example you provided, you sacrificed a scout and learned the location of the captain.  You do NOT want to exchange captains now, because if you do you have lost your scout AND your information advantage.  So, you should either hit the piece next to it with your captain (choice A), or you should hit the captain with a major or colonel (choice B. ) Don't hit the piece next to the captain with your sergeant, because you will be unlikely to acquire any additional useful information.

 


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#15 Moriarty

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Posted 08 January 2016 - 08:01 AM

As an aggresive attacker myself, I should say to put a colonel in front of the captain.

use a captain to lotto the other flank, then come towards the captain and hit piece next to it.


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