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Two games of SATAN-NL against Sohal on video!


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#121 tobermoryx

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Posted 02 January 2016 - 01:45 AM

At  50;27 he moves his miner away , he cannot block you from moving 1 space left  ,next to the bomb 

 

So your miner can take that bomb , and his miner would then just exchange.with yours.

 

Which leaves him with an open flag , so he would then need to put his Major next to flag and would not be able to trap any of your pieces.


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#122 jensneuij

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Posted 02 January 2016 - 12:40 PM

At  50;27 he moves his miner away , he cannot block you from moving 1 space left  ,next to the bomb 

 

So your miner can take that bomb , and his miner would then just exchange.with yours.

 

Which leaves him with an open flag , so he would then need to put his Major next to flag and would not be able to trap any of your pieces.

 

Ah I see it now, you're right. I could have gotten a draw out of that.



#123 Gaius Marius

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 08:07 PM

Stratego is not like chess, there is luck involved! So is the top player SATAN-NL lucky or really skilled? Does he use one setup or has he mastered many different setups? I see lots of players with 40-60% win ratio, suggesting that who wins really comes down to some factor of luck if both players are very good at the game. However, I know that one small mistake can mean your defeat, so perhaps Satan has a better attention span than other players. I think his games probably last over one hour analysing everything he can until he finds a small mistake of the opponent, a loophole, and uses that to his advantage?

To say he is not really that good and maybe just lucky means you truly do not understand the game.  Chess could be said is just a bunch of brainy people with big attention spans that memorize a bunch of predetermined moves to counter against other moves.  Stratego is never the same game twice.  In battle you dont know your enemys setup.  I think you underestimate Hielco's intelligence.  Ive never been beaten worse by any player than by him.


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#124 Hielco

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Posted 17 January 2016 - 12:53 AM

SAME SETUPS :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



#125 jensneuij

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 10:41 AM

First update in a while:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=YxpLXdJLpL0

 

I had an interesting match with a fellow called Aguston46. The game was pretty close but ended dramatically for one of us  :P



#126 The Prof

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 03:26 AM

It was a nice match to watch.  One interesting aspect of it to me was the counter chase sequence that occurred, and that the outcome of this changed the whole balance of the match.  At 15:12 a red major gets a blue captain trapped by the 2-squares rule.  After evading a couple times, blue then employs a counter chase at 15:28, threatening a different red major (that is not trapped) with his colonel.  This is legal under the rules, although some, including myself, would like to change it.   After about 40 seconds, blue, to his own detriment, decides to stop the sequence and gives up his captain, which then tipped the game in favor of his opponent.

 

However, what if blue had instead continued to repeat his moves over and over and asked for a draw?  Jens would not have wanted to let his major be taken, so he would have been forced to accept a draw.  In my opinion that is a less than satisfactory outcome, as it prematurely ends a good match that could have a much more interesting finish.    


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#127 GaryLShelton

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 07:12 AM

Sorry to take the other side of this one again, The Prof. But if you're a teacher on the playground and two boys are fighting, the first question usually asked is, "Who started it?"

The import of the question is, of course, that the person who threw the first punch is more guilty than the person who merely followed suit. If there were truly a "right" thing to do, rule-wise, it would be to stop the kid who threw the first punch. In this case that's Jens.

Moreover, in the case of this rather typical counter-trap chase the fault of the argument lies in the premise that red has blue trapped and there is some kind of right granted in Article 10 for this label of "trap". There isn't. The word "trap" isn't even mentioned in the ISF's Article 10, as you know. So without specific backing in the rules for ANY KIND OF TRAP, why are the rules here being pleaded to for the ill-desired goal of honoring the trap in the counter-trap above all else, and equalizing the counter-trap chasing result there with two squares traps as they are found elsewhere? The Prof, where do we stop? If a player has his opponent 2s trapped, and then his opponent has an escape route behind him, are we to consider putting in the rules that the person may not utilize his escape route?


Red only has blue "trapped" if he's willing to pay the price. Blue is, and should be, perfectly allowed to counter chase, leading to a stalemated situation. Now I disagree with the Dieter statement that the rules shouldn't try to stop every stalemated situation--I think they ought to stop the kid who starts it all. Jens starts a 2s trap he can never win painlessly by the programming here and so if there is any "right" thing to do, it would be to have the programming stop Jens as he's the one who starts the never ending situation, not his opponent.

And another thing, the Two Squares Rule isn't actually about chasing, per se, but rather it's technically only about shuffling more than three times between two squares. This coincidentally allows for the most common of devices we call a two squares trap, but that is not a main intent; it is purely a side effect. It is not an express right under Article 10. And, as I said above--and as you know--the word trap is not in Article 10 at all.

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#128 GaryLShelton

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 11:38 AM

The bottom line is that if red in the above case wants to see blue blocked in the counter chasing, then he's after the rules to bail him out of a situation he didn't do "cleanly". If he wants a solid Two Squares trap, he should not attempt it when when he is under peril only one square away elsewhere. That's sloppy. And if he's going to be sloppy about it, then he shouldn't ask the rules to bail him out. They already give him the opportunity of doing a Two Squares trap in the first place. His job is to do it cleanly. It shouldn't be the job of the rules to bail him out if he does it sloppily.

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#129 jensneuij

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 12:00 PM

I feel that my opponent made a mistake, he let my major "trap" his captain with the 2-squares rule. His captain can't escape my major if I move him right. He's trying to prevent his captain being taken by chasing a piece he can't get to. This is in my eyes unsportive/stalling behaviour and should not be allowed.



#130 GaryLShelton

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 12:20 PM

Then you agree with The Prof here.

The opponent did make a mistake there, perhaps, and maybe he merely got lucky in having the other opportunity to counter attack you.

But as I said above, the right to a "trap" is not to be found in the ISF rules. So your feeling that your opponent is unsporting here in counter attacking you is not based in any set of rules. This is not like the double chase situation where players here can plead to the ISF for the moral high ground. There, double chasing is against the rules though not here.

Now, if you get the trap situation and he's two squares away with his other attack, then you've got him pure and simple. It's my opinion we shouldn't ask the rules to allow more than this.

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#131 jensneuij

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 12:58 PM

To me ISF rules should be implemented on this website and the ISF rules state under 4.4. Unsportive behaviour:

 

"Prolonging the game deliberately by trying to capture one or more of the opponent‟s pieces which cannot be taken because of the Two-squares rule or the More-squares rule."

 

This was clearly the case in my game with Auguston46 so he did the right thing by giving up his captain. I'm not sure if it's possible to change the game mechanisms in a way that endless chasing can be prevented though. In real life tournaments you have a referee for these kind of situations.



#132 GaryLShelton

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 02:05 PM

That's a good counter argument, Jens. But who is who is the question with unsporting behavior.

Is red prolonging the game or blue in the case at hand? Red threatens first. Then blue counters. If this pattern never changes, then red began the whole affair and should be stopped...just like the kid who threw the first punch on the playground.

Now, if you had any movement rule which forbade counter attacking while being trapped, that would be one thing, but there isn't. If any ISF arbiter could weigh in, I'd like to see what they confirm. I don't think they would enforce 4.4 over actual movement rules.

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