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Advanced Stratego Notes: A journal with my setup, strategy and play style


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#1 Guest_Number 4_*

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 02:00 PM

Hello Stratego Fans,

 

First of all, I will say that I post this under a fake account (the one I use when I'm drunk or have to leave within 30 mins so not sure if I'm able to finish a game), for the sole reason I'm still actively using all that I describe on my real account (one of the stronger ones within this community). I'll immediately add that I have not been participating actively on this forum, but still have been following it from the shadows since the start of Stratego.com. If one nonetheless recognizes my identity, I ask you to keep it secret.

 

Attached you'll find my journal describing a setup that has proven itself over the past 13 years, accompanied with a corresponding strategy description. Furthermore, you find notes on advanced Stratego play that brought me very high throughout several rankings.

 

My aim for posting this (anonymously) is threefold:

  • Enable the community to learn from my experience.
  • Enable the community to give (critical) feedback, so I may also learn a thing or two. I thank everyone in advance for providing such feedback or criticism.
  • Encourage the community to do the same, so Stratego.com becomes the leading community in sharing knowledge and training better players.

Regards,

An anonymous contributor

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#2 Guest_Number 4_*

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 02:20 PM

Attached an updated version, a part was missing.

 

Anyone having any thoughts on this?

 

Attached File  Advanced Stratego Notes.Update-1.pdf   233.97KB   1480 downloads



#3 Napoleon 1er

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 11:50 PM

Hi Number 4,

 

I read your journal and I liked the passion that you are devoting to this game. I do not remember having faced such kind of setup with marsh in middle front and 2x bombs in front on the flanks with high ranked silver players (however it happened sometimes when I face low bronze ranking players), so probably we have not yet played against each other. However I have some questions to you:

 

1) In what % of your games is your marsh discovered early within the first 10 minutes of a game?

2) Why do you show your preferred setup that seems to work well for you and explain all your tactics? Don't you fear that as soon as somebody recognizes the pattern of your setup he will adapt his tactics to it, so it will not help you? Even if you remain hidden players may recognize the patterns and the game style.

3) WHy don't you want to be recognized? If you really are a high ranked silver, dutch and ... number 4 I believe I can have some suspicions about your highest ranked account.

 

Anyway I completely agree with you that we should develop a training platform for stratego. Some time ago I did initiate a forum:

 

http://forum.strateg...training-forum/

 

Have a look and let me know what you think and feel free to add your own quizz if you wish

 

Napoleon 1er


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#4 maribo

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 02:40 AM

Thank you for this setup. I hope I see this in action some day. As I will soon be up 6 pieces after my volley of 3 scouts, I know 2 bombs and the marshall. I hope Sohal or Lightwing would post a better reply. Shall we begin a serious discussion of defensive play?



#5 GaryLShelton

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 04:01 AM

Hi Number 4, 

 

Nice presentation of some of your ideas.  I will immediately copy your #5 and alternate setups and see if I can keep my Marshal covered up enough to make them work.  I like the thought about it being an anti-trading setup.  The Colonel and/or Major on the left flank are not something I usually do.  They should help obtain some Lutes and Captains to deter the trading, I would suspect.

 

I'm currently around 400 ELO and trying to push higher.  I will enjoy attempting your strategy and re-reading this post for reference.

 

Thanks for writing it.

 

Gary


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#6 maribo

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 06:02 AM

Oh Gary, Even Sponge Bob knows better



#7 GaryLShelton

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 06:58 AM

maribo, my ulcer really missed you.  Glad you're back.

 

Seriously, though, I think that it's awfully hard to judge some of the higher strategies for our own lower levels.  You're much higher than me, so you may not recall how crazy people play at, say, a 200 level.  I submit to you that perhaps our lower logic is what keeps us lower.

 

The 200 player thinks he must take the crazy, unwarranted risks all the time.  I have my own predilections.  You, yours.  The point is I don't think we can blindly say something is not right for a person above us just because it doesn't work for us.  I'll agree with you, if I'm playing a 200 level player, I'd love to find that marshal on the front row.  But I'm not ready to say it makes me happy if my opponent is silver to find it necessarily.

 

We have to constantly be open to new revelations, I suggest.

 

Gary


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#8 maribo

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 08:33 AM

Gary try this. please just one game.

dont move any flank pieces. Move a scout up one and over one. if he does not come down that side. do the same on another center or other flank. Repeat, let him come to you.

 

Do not put any bombs in the front 12 squares 4 between lakes 4 left flank 4 right flank.

Put 4,5,6,7 2 scouts on both sides

in center perhaps you can put a bomb at column 3 or 4 at lake or column 7 or 8 at lake. Do not listen to him when he says that is a rare place for a bomb. That is a common place to avoid lottoers. Whenyou put bombs on the flanks they are found too quickly and thus that thrwarts that attacker because he will risk nothing when nothing is to be found.

Dont try to save your lutenants except in the very opening moves on the flanks. Assume that a lujte is coming at you. so dont waste your scouts in front 6 positions except 2 maybe in the middle columns 5.6. Assume that he will not lotto marshall in first 4 moves ujp the center so. Assume he wants to scout you to death let him. waste his scouts on your row 3 miners (1) in middle, re shuffle pieces

put a sarge out in row 3 now eat another scout. When you sense a lute is coming, pop a captaoin out in the place where the sargent was and eat that blind lute. ON the flanks rotate 4,5,6,7 with 2 scouts. dont advance farther than 1 row up from your 4th row. when you eat a sargent or a lute. back up and reshuffle. Dont back up any pieces with colonels generals or marshalls or spies at the very first 15 moves of the game. Just rotate and reshuffle. When you have your captain discovered either back up and shuffle or maybe take the bluff and you are swapping a captain after you ate a sargent now you are up a piece. dont put the spy anywhere near the colonels majors or general. Actually put it diagnol to the marshall. Put the spy in row 2 and constantly shufle pieces. When he is coiming with his marshall. put another shitter piece in place of the last one he scouted. After he has used 4 to 5 scouts on your shitters. Set up a real fake spy under some midrange piece , this time put a good piece out like a major and let him find that with one of his lowly shitters, now you fake and put the marshal under the major. Now at the last possible second he might come up and want to swap majors to find that scout with yet another spy. switch it up put the colonel int its place when no longer possible for him to rescout again, now as long as marshall sits back a square you've ate a major with colonel. make sure you can reshuffle or get marshall ready. put marshall in row 2 once in a while in col 2,5,6,9 every 5th game.



#9 Guest_Number 4_*

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 11:16 AM

Hello all,

 

Hi Number 4,

 

I read your journal and I liked the passion that you are devoting to this game. I do not remember having faced such kind of setup with marsh in middle front and 2x bombs in front on the flanks with high ranked silver players (however it happened sometimes when I face low bronze ranking players), so probably we have not yet played against each other. However I have some questions to you:

 

1) In what % of your games is your marsh discovered early within the first 10 minutes of a game?

2) Why do you show your preferred setup that seems to work well for you and explain all your tactics? Don't you fear that as soon as somebody recognizes the pattern of your setup he will adapt his tactics to it, so it will not help you? Even if you remain hidden players may recognize the patterns and the game style.

3) WHy don't you want to be recognized? If you really are a high ranked silver, dutch and ... number 4 I believe I can have some suspicions about your highest ranked account.

 

Anyway I completely agree with you that we should develop a training platform for stratego. Some time ago I did initiate a forum:

 

http://forum.strateg...training-forum/

 

Have a look and let me know what you think and feel free to add your own quizz if you wish

 

Napoleon 1er

 

Hi Napoleon,

 

Thanks for your reply.

1. Yes, that still is a serious issue: about 10-15% of the cases it gets immediately spotted or the 6 got traded within the first 10 minutes with pressure on the right centerlane (see case 4), so I'll have to adjust. After that, it will only be revealed when I get a significant advantage, often including the knowledge about the opponent marshall.

2. Because I want to have a shared knowledge platform here, so everyone can benefit. Yes, it might become a serious issue.

3. Don't try to guess. I'm not within top 15 due to having not played often over the past several months, but I'm close.

 

I'll take a look at your post! :)

 

Thank you for this setup. I hope I see this in action some day. As I will soon be up 6 pieces after my volley of 3 scouts, I know 2 bombs and the marshall. I hope Sohal or Lightwing would post a better reply. Shall we begin a serious discussion of defensive play?

 

Hello Maribo,

 

I'm not here to debate or defend myself, but to discuss substantively. To just comment on this shortly:

1. I know Lightwing from the Metaforge times, and won 2 out of 4 games, those were good games to be remembered so I did. Is he here too, and under which name? Would be nice to add a 5th game.

2. Looking through my journal, I see I've played you at least 6 times, and won 5 of them. There is also a note of rude behavior attached to it, from August 2013. If you want proof, I can post the reconstructed setup I've drawn on here (or even a photo). But hey, let's just keep it friendly and substantive huh?

 

 

Seriously, though, I think that it's awfully hard to judge some of the higher strategies for our own lower levels.  You're much higher than me, so you may not recall how crazy people play at, say, a 200 level.  I submit to you that perhaps our lower logic is what keeps us lower.

 

The 200 player thinks he must take the crazy, unwarranted risks all the time.  I have my own predilections.  You, yours.  The point is I don't think we can blindly say something is not right for a person above us just because it doesn't work for us.  I'll agree with you, if I'm playing a 200 level player, I'd love to find that marshal on the front row.  But I'm not ready to say it makes me happy if my opponent is silver to find it necessarily.

 

We have to constantly be open to new revelations, I suggest.

 

GaryLShelton marks the spot here. The reason I posted this, is because I have quite an unusual setup and play style, that still is extremely effective. Open up minds, and learn from eachother. When I myself look at this setup after having not played for several months, I don't believe it either, until you start to bring it into practice again. Last but not least: play style is much more important the the setup.

 

Anyone else having (substantive) thoughts on this?



#10 maxroelofs

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 12:03 PM

Hi number 4,

I know who you are, and you also know i know who you are. But ill keep it secret.

Thanks for the document, i will read it!
To watch stratego videos: https://www.youtube....HOHXWONQMsVcOLA

#11 GaryLShelton

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 01:44 PM

Hi number 4,
I know who you are, and you also know i know who you are. But ill keep it secret.
Thanks for the document, i will read it!


So, max, you obviously never see his Marsh on the front row, I'm assuming?

Gary

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#12 Roondy Moose

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 01:59 PM

I thought it was against the rules (cheating) to take notes during the game about moved pieces and where pieces are.

Also taking notes on every game you've played and every person means often you will catch someone in a similar setup. And why else would you keep tabs on all of the games if you weren't trying to gain an advantage from it?


Love is a losing game.


#13 GaryLShelton

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 01:59 PM

Hey maribo, that was a good post. Nice read. Not backing with a high piece and just reshuffling sounds solid enough, and I like the past about switching between bluffing and not bluffing (which I think is in common with our thread starter). Since I don't know your playing style well, I would ask how long are your average games? Actually, I would ask that of every one. There is nothing I'd like more than a setup/style of play combination that would get me down to more of a 30 minute or less average.

All these upper silvers who don't know how to make a mistake must play for 2 hours each time, I imagine.

Gary

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Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...604#entry339604


#14 Guest_Number 4_*

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 02:25 PM

Hi number 4,

I know who you are, and you also know i know who you are. But ill keep it secret.

Thanks for the document, i will read it!

 

Hi Max,

 

It would surprise me if you would have narrowed it down that quickly, cause it would have been from a long time ago ;-) But you may actually still be right. Mmm :-)

 

I thought it was against the rules (cheating) to take notes during the game about moved pieces and where pieces are.

Also taking notes on every game you've played and every person means often you will catch someone in a similar setup. And why else would you keep tabs on all of the games if you weren't trying to gain an advantage from it?

 

Hello Roondy,

 

In my opinion, pen and paper are allowed (just like rules on tournaments).

 

I would never look back historic journals during a game, only after. If I were to do it during a game, I would consider it unfair play, and it would not give me the satisfaction if I were to win. I like the games I get sweaty, that thrill, that's what I play for.

 

So please, believe me, when I say I'm a fair player.

 

Hey maribo, that was a good post. Nice read. Not backing with a high piece and just reshuffling sounds solid enough, and I like the past about switching between bluffing and not bluffing (which I think is in common with our thread starter). Since I don't know your playing style well, I would ask how long are your average games? Actually, I would ask that of every one. There is nothing I'd like more than a setup/style of play combination that would get me down to more of a 30 minute or less average.

All these upper silvers who don't know how to make a mistake must play for 2 hours each time, I imagine.

Gary

 

Hi Gary,

 

I'd really like it if we could stay on-topic on this thread. You make a real valid point with your question (interested in some other opinions too, my games range from 3m to 1h30m), but I would myself start a separate thread on it. Just my thoughts :-)



#15 Luckypapa

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 02:28 PM

Hi Maribo,

When I read your post you are reshuffeling a lot. In my experience the more pieces you have moved, the easier it is for your opponent when he knows your marsh to do a lot of damage to your pieces with his general.
I totaly agree with you, to defend yourself against lotto players, to place a bomb in the second row or behind the lakes.

@ Gary: I think my avarage playtime is between 30 minutes and 45 minutes. However, sometimes I need an hour or more to get the win or the loss. When I play lottoplayers the average goes down, 10 to 20 minutes, with personal record of 2:56 last week.

Lucky

PS: a marshal on the front row is in my eyes not the best set up if you want this piece to be unknown for a while.

The secret of happiness is not in doing what you like, but in liking what you should do.


#16 maribo

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 10:50 PM

I am not a good player. I do lose games to those who show marshall right away. I am saying instead that the scouting number of 10-15% sounds low to me an and player who volleys 4 scouts in his first 4 moves, is at a big advantage to your setup especially if they are a silver player also. I can say that with your marshall scouted in the front row, you are giving up to much information to succeed in anything better than a draw. Saving scouts just for savings sake is not in itself a winning combination, and probably has less than a marginal increase on winning a game. It is most served for drawing a winless game.

 

And I have not played a silver player 6 times but I am a rude sob.

 

Good luck, I hope you vary your setups more than you post as others have suspiciously acknowledged in agreement.

I still appreciate the idea of sharing some overall tips. The player makes the game not the setup. I would expect some even to sit there general adjacent to your marshall in front row, then the swap parade begins, andyour  colonels can probably only fight off the center area more than the flanks



#17 Enigma

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 10:50 PM

Hello Roondy,

 

In my opinion, pen and paper are allowed (just like rules on tournaments).

 

I would never look back historic journals during a game, only after. If I were to do it during a game, I would consider it unfair play, and it would not give me the satisfaction if I were to win. I like the games I get sweaty, that thrill, that's what I play for.

 

So please, believe me, when I say I'm a fair player.

 

 

 

 

Thank you for sharing your experience and contributing your knowledge of Stratego.  I respect you for doing that.  I have some thoughts about your setup that I'll share later, but I need to clarify one thing first and see your response.  I do NOT believe that taking notes DURING a game is legal, at least if you adhere to ISF rules (which admittedly, many players here don't). 

 

From the ISF rules:

 

"17 Using papers 

 
Players are allowed to use notes for deploying 
their troops during the Setup Period. During 
the rest of the match, players are not allowed 
to make or use notes in any way, neither on 
paper nor with the help of any electronic 
device"
 
In my opinion, if you are tracking pieces with anything other than your brain during a game, you are not playing legally.  Aside from thinking just about the "rules", writing down pieces eliminates the critical MEMORY component of the game and is not what REAL Stratego is all about (it more closely resembles the infamous 'Remain Visible' and 'Game Aids' options from Meta).  


#18 maribo

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 11:00 PM

Hi Maribo,

When I read your post you are reshuffeling a lot. In my experience the more pieces you have moved, the easier it is for your opponent when he knows your marsh to do a lot of damage to your pieces with his general.
I totaly agree with you, to defend yourself against lotto players, to place a bomb in the second row or behind the lakes.

@ Gary: I think my avarage playtime is between 30 minutes and 45 minutes. However, sometimes I need an hour or more to get the win or the loss. When I play lottoplayers the average goes down, 10 to 20 minutes, with personal record of 2:56 last week.

Lucky

PS: a marshal on the front row is in my eyes not the best set up if you want this piece to be unknown for a while.

Yes of course shuffling with a known marshall is a losing proposition, I left that out. Thanks I was forgetting to say it is useful when someone brings down their marshall and sits it in the center at the lake and trys to scout and scout and scout. While you play the repositioning game to eat scouts, you are also getting a group ready to attack in a different direction. But the flank idea of the scout, sarge lute captain major is useful to get just a teenie tiny early advantage, It may cost you a captain but hopefully instead your scout faker find his marshall while your 1/2 are both buried



#19 maribo

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 11:23 PM

I've already seen close to this setup from players this week. Its already spreading. Miner up the flank follow with major and wak a mole



#20 Guest_Number 4_*

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 01:23 AM

 

Thank you for sharing your experience and contributing your knowledge of Stratego.  I respect you for doing that.  I have some thoughts about your setup that I'll share later, but I need to clarify one thing first and see your response.  I do NOT believe that taking notes DURING a game is legal, at least if you adhere to ISF rules (which admittedly, many players here don't). 

 

From the ISF rules:

 

"17 Using papers 

 
Players are allowed to use notes for deploying 
their troops during the Setup Period. During 
the rest of the match, players are not allowed 
to make or use notes in any way, neither on 
paper nor with the help of any electronic 
device"
 
In my opinion, if you are tracking pieces with anything other than your brain during a game, you are not playing legally.  Aside from thinking just about the "rules", writing down pieces eliminates the critical MEMORY component of the game and is not what REAL Stratego is all about (it more closely resembles the infamous 'Remain Visible' and 'Game Aids' options from Meta).  

 

 

Hi Enigma,

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

The issue about taking notes has been split off this thread and moved to a separate one.

 

I remember having played you at least 3-4 times, and won only once, in the onlinestratego.com era I believe. Therefore, I'm particularly interested in your point of view.

 

 

I've already seen close to this setup from players this week. Its already spreading. Miner up the flank follow with major and wak a mole

 

That's something I hadn't thought of, and essentially makes it useless.. My goal was sharing knowledge and educate each other, not stimulate copycats. Although using it to experience it is a good way to learn.






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