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Disconnecting losers (hall of shame)


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#21 Midnightguy

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 07:59 AM

After seeing the number of complaints and experiencing first hand myself the number of people who been quitting games I was ready to win, I have decided now to come up with an idea for the site.

 

Here it is:  

 

I propose a new stat added to wins, losses, draws....incomplete.  If you quit a game for any reason:  you are losing, computer issues, whatever...you get a 1 added to incomplete.  If you get 5 incompletes you get -50 to your rating and including your loss and this would happen also on 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th quit.  If you quit 10 times you get -100 to your rating plus loss of game.  Here is a quick reference chart:

 

1-4 No change in rating but a loss in rating for losing game.... 

5-9 = -50 to each match you quit   + drop in rating for losing game...

10-14 = -100 to each match you quit " 

15-19 = -150 to each match you quit "

20+ -200 for every quit match "

 

However, there are players who did have legit computer issue who usually don't or never quit on purpose.  What about them?   I suggest that if you play 10 matches without quitting, you have 1 incomplete removed from your record until you hit 0.  

 

I believe if we can penalize these quitters every time they leave a game after 5 incompletes, their ratings will drop and they will be to a point they won't get to play anyone of worth on the site anymore and maybe they'll take the hint not to quit and learn to use the resign button instead.  



#22 maribo

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 10:02 PM

rankings penalties don't mean much to 80% of those people. Their satisfaction is derived from annoying you. Whatever it says on a "nontext searchable graphic" does not matter. The penalties have to be in the form of no games allowed to be played for that ip address for weeks. MG its a nice concept but maybe not enough of a hindrance.

The 2:30 countdown is like standing on a stage receiving applause for all that time. You bow to the crowd. It is the ultimate compliment. And I get to get a drink and take a leak.



#23 DreamCrusher999

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 03:45 PM

http://imageshack.co...1/2566/d9v9.png



#24 GaryLShelton

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 05:35 PM


I propose a new stat added to wins, losses, draws....incomplete.  If you quit a game for any reason:  you are losing, computer issues, whatever...you get a 1 added to incomplete.  If you get 5 incompletes you get -50 to your rating and including your loss and this would happen also on 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th quit.  If you quit 10 times you get -100 to your rating plus loss of game.  

 

MG, it's a good idea.  Best yet for the topic.  I think it has much merit, but I would offer the following tweaking below.  

 

My problem with your plan comes in two areas.  First, people with on-purpose disconnects are treated the same as people with accidental ones.  Second, you do not give an easier method for the points to be reduced for all, but primarily I'm thinking for the latter group's benefit.  

 

Since we currently have no way of telling the first group of people from the second with 100% accuracy (at least this is what I understand from everyone smarter in computers here), so that we necessarily have to penalize both of them the same, I propose we say that any "quitting points" be reduced by 1 for 3 good games instead of the 1 for 10 good games you submitted.  That we are penalizing them both 50 points seems especially harsh for the latter people when they had a bonafide problem. That we try to offset this inability of ours to detect who the true culprits are by giving everyone a quicker way to fix the situation for themselves is what I am after. It is the only way I could have a clear conscience about it.

 

This suggestion could change when the day arrives where we can absolutely detect these things better.  Then I would opt for harsher right along beside you.

 

I do like the fact the points don't go away in this issue, but that is just another reason we have to look out for the bonfide disconnected players all the more.  I do think that maribo's penalties might be even harsher than yours, but I disagree that 80% of the people who quit do not care about ratings.  Yes, they do it to be annoying, obviously, but that doesn't equate to most of them not caring about ratings.  In any event the problem with them would go away if they fell out of the range at which I, or you, or maribo, would play them.  Pretty soon they'd all be practically reset!  

 

I don't think we should concern ourselves with being too easy on the group we are trying to target.  Yes, these quitters could clean up a point with 3 good games (using my idea) but they'd still be quitting.  It's awfully hard for the leopard to change its spots.  They'd all see a bronze spy rating pretty fast under the scheme you propose.

 

So yes, let all the guys who continually quit dip to the same low ranking.  They can all quit on each other.  Let 'em start playing bronze spies again.  Sounds good to me!

 

Gary


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#25 Designated Baby

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 05:47 PM

Let's just say if you disconnect and then do not return in the time allotted to resume the game, that counts as an incomplete always. If someone has a computer problem, he will usually be able to reconnect in that amount of time. 

 


gg


#26 Midnightguy

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 06:20 PM

rankings penalties don't mean much to 80% of those people. Their satisfaction is derived from annoying you. Whatever it says on a "nontext searchable graphic" does not matter. The penalties have to be in the form of no games allowed to be played for that ip address for weeks. MG its a nice concept but maybe not enough of a hindrance.

The 2:30 countdown is like standing on a stage receiving applause for all that time. You bow to the crowd. It is the ultimate compliment. And I get to get a drink and take a leak.

The idea to this system is if you quit enough your rating will be back to 100 bronze spy and you'll be facing other bronze spies and other low rated players.  If they care about their rating, they will stop quitting.   If they don't care like you say, then people who do care about their rating won't face those players as much.  

 

 

Since we currently have no way of telling the first group of people from the second with 100% accuracy (at least this is what I understand from everyone smarter in computers here), so that we necessarily have to penalize both of them the same, I propose we say that any "quitting points" be reduced by 1 for 3 good games instead of the 1 for 10 good games you submitted.  That we are penalizing them both 50 points seems especially harsh for the latter people when they had a bonafide problem. That we try to offset this inability of ours to detect who the true culprits are by giving everyone a quicker way to fix the situation for themselves is what I am after. It is the only way I could have a clear conscience about it.

 

This suggestion could change when the day arrives where we can absolutely detect these things better.  Then I would opt for harsher right along beside you.

I'm willing to change my suggestion of how many good games to remove an incomplete but 3 is too low in my opinion, maybe 5 might be more doable.  I came up with this idea of incomplete on a old game site that had all types of board and card games and they had it if you quit the game you got a incomplete and every ten games you played 1 was removed from your record.

 

 

Let's just say if you disconnect and then do not return in the time allotted to resume the game, that counts as an incomplete always. If someone has a computer problem, he will usually be able to reconnect in that amount of time. 

 

DB with my suggested system, an incomplete will only be handed out if they don't return to the game in time after the 2:30 goes to zero.  This will give players who had legit quick disconnects or clicked wrong window that closed out the game time to return with out penalty 



#27 maribo

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 09:28 PM

Yes if they return before the 2:30 runs down they probably have a legit computer problem. In real computer reboot problems, sometimes you lose the connection to your carrier, and then you have no recourse. But if your computer freezes, and it takes  quite a bit of time before you decide you have to reboot your clock is ticking. I've had that issue but rarely. In some 5 year old desktops a reboot could take 3 minutes. I don't play on that machine anyway because of the graphics issues. But still if you rejoin before the game ends, then you won't get penalized. That is a good thing to put into effect. Also I recommend that some of you moderators be trained in how to decipher out the duplicate account thingy. That may mean getting paid, but if you had the system at your finger tips then the policing would be easier and could be done without forum interventions.



#28 GaryLShelton

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 04:00 AM

MG, one last question.  Let's say we're at 5 games redeems 1 "quitting point" as you rebutted with.  Hypothetically, what would happen if you played a game, quit, and then played 4 games and quit again?  Do you lose your 4 games of redemption?  Or would the very next good game add to those 4 and still redeem 1 quitting point?  

 

In other words, to redeem a quitting point does one have to play 5 good games in a row?  

 

I'm betting you'll say yes, but it would suit me fine, I think, if no.

 

Gary


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#29 gmits

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 05:29 PM

another badsport : GMITS

he is thinking he can't play whithout his marshall

 

sqii.jpg

I don't think what you think! Just have problem with chrome (it crashed and I couldn't reconnect!). I've already lost too many games that I was clearly in better position because of that. Thank you



#30 Midnightguy

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 05:57 PM

Gary, my proposal would be:  you must play 5 good game in a row to have an incomplete removed.  Play four only and quit, the counter starts again. 



#31 Where Is Ya Flag

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 06:24 PM

This should be one of these things, people shouldn't complain about, even tho I did complain myself, at times, and also be one of these quiters..

Sometimes you don't think about it, and just press X. On to the next thing you're gonna do.

 

Yes, it's annoying as fck, yes, the amount grows like a virus, but hey..

2.30 minutes to get a victory screen, really ain't worth complaining.

Especially not if you could consider that the remain of the game could 've been 15 minutes or some, for example.

 

Do you guys remember when you played this game, and either your internet kicked you out of the game, or a bug did, and there was no point to return to the game..

 

I would rather get 10 quiters a day than that problem we had before once..


What you lookin' at? You all a bunch of *bleeping* A holes. You know why? You don't have the guts to be what you wanna be. You need people like me. You need people like me so you can point your *bleeping* fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." So...what that make you? Good? You're not good. You just know how to hide--how to lie. Me, I don't have that problem. Me, I always tell the truth. Even when I lie. So say goodnight to the bad guy!

2zjf5h4.jpg


#32 thilly gooth

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 12:19 AM

I nominate maribo for the Hall of Shame.

 

http://i.imgur.com/wiFiV4e.jpg


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gg


#33 GaryLShelton

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 03:15 AM

Gary, my proposal would be:  you must play 5 good game in a row to have an incomplete removed.  Play four only and quit, the counter starts again. 

 

MG, I'd really like to see this happen sometime.  If you could press on this with the M.T., perhaps we could, with just a little more debate, get this going this year. 

 

Gary


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#34 The Prof

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 06:22 AM

I propose a new stat added to wins, losses, draws....incomplete.  If you quit a game for any reason:  you are losing, computer issues, whatever...you get a 1 added to incomplete.  If you get 5 incompletes you get -50 to your rating and including your loss and this would happen also on 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th quit.  If you quit 10 times you get -100 to your rating plus loss of game.  Here is a quick reference chart:

 

1-4 No change in rating but a loss in rating for losing game.... 

5-9 = -50 to each match you quit   + drop in rating for losing game...

10-14 = -100 to each match you quit " 

15-19 = -150 to each match you quit "

20+ -200 for every quit match "

 

However, there are players who did have legit computer issue who usually don't or never quit on purpose.  What about them?   I suggest that if you play 10 matches (sounds like you since changed this to 5without quitting, you have 1 incomplete removed from your record until you hit 0.  

 

I think Midnightguy has a really good idea here.  I would simplify it a bit though.  There’s no need to have so many levels.  By the time someone got their 19th quit they would have lost 1500 points!  Even with wins factored in they would have been taken down to 100 long before this point.  Another thing is that disconnects are only an issue when the player loses.  So a win should not assist a player in removing a quit point.  We don’t want players who have a high win percentage to be able to get away with disconnecting on the majority of their losses.  Rather, only a series of losses without a disconnect should count toward quit removal.  If we just count losses, it wouldn’t need to be 5 games without a disconnect, but instead say 3 losses without a disconnect.  Also, I think four free quits is too much and that the penalty should come sooner.  So I propose something like this:
 
1 quit:  No effect
2 quits:  A warning email is sent to the player
3 quits:  -25 points
4 or more quits:  -50 points for each infraction
 
1 quit is removed anytime a player has 3 losses that didn't result from disconnect since the last quit.
 
I think this would be sufficient to stop quitters.  Nobody is going to want to keep losing 50 points every time they quit.  It wouldn't be worth the 5 seconds it takes to click surrender and confirm.  

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#35 Where Is Ya Flag

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 07:21 AM

I nominate maribo for the Hall of Shame.

 

http://i.imgur.com/wiFiV4e.jpg

:ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r:


What you lookin' at? You all a bunch of *bleeping* A holes. You know why? You don't have the guts to be what you wanna be. You need people like me. You need people like me so you can point your *bleeping* fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." So...what that make you? Good? You're not good. You just know how to hide--how to lie. Me, I don't have that problem. Me, I always tell the truth. Even when I lie. So say goodnight to the bad guy!

2zjf5h4.jpg


#36 GaryLShelton

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 07:24 AM

This player played a very good game but decided on an ungracious exit  when I moved my scout into striking position on his back row.  He then allowed his buffer, which had been untouched at 5 minutes the whole game, to begin running down to zero.  As it hit the 15 second mark he did an actual disconnect.  This brought on the timer shown below.  I had to wait not only for the standard 2:30 of the disconnect timer in this picture, but the previous 5 minutes of buffer on top of that.  This was particularly bad form because he added the buffer to the disconnect timer, which meant I had to wait not only 2:30 but 7:15 (since he left 15 seconds on the clock).  

 

The reason this issue is bigger than most of the poo poo'ers say is that a disconnector could come back into the game and win if I wasn't looking.  This guy came back on at the 15 second mark.  If I'd have gone to the forum, or anywhere else for more than the 2:27 I had left on my own buffer clock, he could've sneakily won.  These disconnectors know that we have to watch the game til the end for the reason I describe.  It's annoying.  I hope we get MG's plan hammered out and installed.  I'm glad the M.T. is starting to come around and want to deal with this issue.

 

Gary

 

zuk3.jpg


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#37 Where Is Ya Flag

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 07:31 AM

Put your sound on Gary.. -.-

 

I rather have them do something about that half of us can't even play a video of youtube and play Stratego at the same time, without having plug-in troubles.. Bugs first, 1st prio issues secondly, after that we can think of things like this..

But , that's just my opinion

 

Don't forget that for every thing that "has been fixed" the last 18 months, we had 2 bugs in return..

 

To wait 2:30 minutes in a game which ain't even halfway, just look at all the pictures, it truelly ain't a big deal..

In your case, people should report it, as in the end it's an attempt to cheat..

 

What if, in those 7 minutes, someone gets one of those idiotic plug-in crashes, than it's probably game over.

(does anyone knows what happen if you leave a game, when your opponent left his game??)


What you lookin' at? You all a bunch of *bleeping* A holes. You know why? You don't have the guts to be what you wanna be. You need people like me. You need people like me so you can point your *bleeping* fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." So...what that make you? Good? You're not good. You just know how to hide--how to lie. Me, I don't have that problem. Me, I always tell the truth. Even when I lie. So say goodnight to the bad guy!

2zjf5h4.jpg


#38 Midnightguy

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 08:26 PM

The Prof your proposal is something to consider, but believe my proposal is more lenient at the start which would give those players with legit computer issues time to get them corrected before we start piling on the penalties.  When we start getting to 10 or more quits, these are the habitual cheaters we want to target to teach them a lesson.  My idea here is yes punish those players who can't hit resign and if they can't do that then they will be 100 bronze spy even if they have a 60% win record or higher.  I think though, we can come up with an idea that might be the middle ground.  



#39 thilly gooth

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 08:52 PM

You can just do it on a screenshot case by case basis like the draw refusal.

The chances are if you just take a marshal and then the opponent disconnects it is intentional and that person should be punished.


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gg


#40 GaryLShelton

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 11:13 PM

Yes, bugs remaining are important to fix.  But this problem is very widespread (far more than any bug) and deserves our attention.  Besides, the problem is a potential cheating device, as I described in my previous post above.  But whatever the site can correct and does correct, it will never have anything to do with a player's own poor connection or computer issues.  These will remain an issue forever.

 

Gary


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