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Topics of Abusive Behavior January 2014:


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#1 Midnightguy

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 05:21 PM

Please use this topic thread to post any cases of abuse that is going on with our site that is not related to cheating or draw refusal.  State what the issue is and an online moderator will examine your case.  Please to keep this topic clean, refrain from other issues and do that in other areas of our forum.



#2 Gaius Marius

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 07:21 PM

I was playing an opponent, his flag was in the middle, all pieces were revealed, my 4 ran into his bomb, he had 1 flag in the 3rd row, and 2 6's, i had 1 4 and 2, 3's.  my units were spread in corners so that if his pieces were to try and take mine, my other one would get his flag, i had a 3rd unit giving me the obvious advantage.  he said i refused a draw situation because he was unsportsmanlike and just repeatedly attacked opposing pieces moving back and forth.  I had the clear advantage.  Did I do something wrong.


"Everyone pities the weak, jealousy you have to earn."


#3 KARAISKAKIS

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 07:30 PM

Flag in 3nd row means that was open (unsealed ) right?

Did you know where was his flag or you suspect that was there?

In case you knew where was his flag and this was open you have advantage.

Have you any screenshot of that?



#4 Gaius Marius

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 07:37 PM

i dont know how to take screen shots.  i know, but his flag was wide open, no bombs surrounding it, i took 5 of his 6 bombs with minor, 4 hit his last bomb, i had knowledge of all his bombs,  i had 6 bombs left, flag surrounded by bombs.  he had 2 luitenants, i had 2 minors and a sarg, all spread out. i was moving to take his flag, but he just attack each piece one after another indefinantly.  i said u are cheating and he said i was not accepting a tie?  who was right.  I though it was unsportsmanlike to attack one after another and technically against the rules when the opponent can get ur flag


"Everyone pities the weak, jealousy you have to earn."


#5 KARAISKAKIS

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 08:12 PM

So it was double chasing in both sides from his 6' to your 3'

You have your 4 in the middle which can go easy to capture his flag which was in the middle

In this situation i would moved back with my 3 to stop chasing

If he followed me I would give up my 3 (but only when he was deep in my field) with purpose to move my other 2 pieces to the flag.



#6 Gaius Marius

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 08:15 PM

he made  run for my flag and hit a bomb, so i didnt have to worry bout it.  but he said i was refusing a tie after i said he was being unsportsmanlike


"Everyone pities the weak, jealousy you have to earn."


#7 KARAISKAKIS

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 08:29 PM

So you lost your last 4 on his last bomb, correct?

After that game ended in tie, correct?

In this case i think that your behavior was fair. Do not worry. ;)

 

p.s. about how to take and upload screenshots visit http://forum.strateg...ad-screenshots/



#8 Gaius Marius

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 08:30 PM

no i won, he took his 6 and hit a bomb


"Everyone pities the weak, jealousy you have to earn."


#9 Gaius Marius

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 08:32 PM

what happend was i had 2 4's and 2 3's and 1 4 hit his bomb, thus revealing everything.  so with my 3 peices i attempted to corner him.  and then he starting the double attacking.


"Everyone pities the weak, jealousy you have to earn."


#10 KARAISKAKIS

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 08:32 PM

Much better for you !!!



#11 trickz

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 09:47 PM

i dont know how to take screen shots.  i know, but his flag was wide open, no bombs surrounding it, i took 5 of his 6 bombs with minor, 4 hit his last bomb, i had knowledge of all his bombs,  i had 6 bombs left, flag surrounded by bombs.  he had 2 luitenants, i had 2 minors and a sarg, all spread out. i was moving to take his flag, but he just attack each piece one after another indefinantly.  i said u are cheating and he said i was not accepting a tie?  who was right.  I though it was unsportsmanlike to attack one after another and technically against the rules when the opponent can get ur flag

 

 

This is a very famous situation indeed.

According to the ISF-rules, you are right....you can't indefinitely chase around.

However, according to the implemented software you can and if that's the only way to make sure that you're at least not losing, then I would do the same.  Especially since the ISF antichase rule is full of errors, it lacks detailed information and the word continuous doesn't apply as the same definition in a ONE and SEVERAL two square situations on the board.

 

If that was his only way to block you off the victory and you didn't want to accept a tie,....then for me it seems you are the unsportive player.  What does your opponent needs to do then?  Let you through so that you can grab his flag?

Why does he need to lose the game if the game software tells him that it's okay to double chase?

 

Or Jumbo implement the ISF rules and then you don't have these situations anymore (not that this would be a fair solution but this aside) and if not,....then this situation was  A CLEAR TIE.

You can't get his flag and he can't kill you without risking his flag so there's no proceeding of the game thus a clear tie.


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#12 Gaius Marius

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 12:57 AM

That is my issue.  The real rules state that you can not double chase, so how would it be unsporty if the Stratego people implemented the real rules.  And I added the player as a friend and am bringing it up because I'm not trying to cheat and am being open about it so I can get more knowledge on the rules and not make the same mistake again.  If I really was wrong then I would not mind my points being reset to the number i had before the win and wont make the same mistake again.


"Everyone pities the weak, jealousy you have to earn."


#13 Gaius Marius

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 12:58 AM

also, i disagree that double chase is not unsporty.  people do that in the mid game as well and what are you suppose to do, let them take your piece, or waste a lot of time with an unsporty player.


"Everyone pities the weak, jealousy you have to earn."


#14 Gaius Marius

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 01:02 AM

and sorry for the consecutive posts, but I see a flaw in your logic.  U say why does he need to let u win if the software allows him to chase.  And I say the software let people glitch other people and that clearly irritated people and ruined the game.  If a rule is a rule, then when in the situation, regardless of the software, a player should play honorably.


"Everyone pities the weak, jealousy you have to earn."


#15 trickz

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 04:48 AM

That is my issue.  The real rules state that you can not double chase, so how would it be unsporty if the Stratego people implemented the real rules.  And I added the player as a friend and am bringing it up because I'm not trying to cheat and am being open about it so I can get more knowledge on the rules and not make the same mistake again.  If I really was wrong then I would not mind my points being reset to the number i had before the win and wont make the same mistake again.

 

You talk about the real rules but there is no official real rule from the gaming companies worldwide who had and have a license for the game,....a rule that states you can't continuously chase one or more pieces.

Define continuously? Look it up, it says uninterrupted in time so how can you continuously chase in a double chase, knowing that the chain is broken after each attack?

There is an interruption after i switch my attack so therefore the action is not continuously.

 

So the rules in all the manual scripts worldwide lack a decent detailed anti chase rule and because there was no official anti chase rule in the game, the ISF took over the game and defined the rule as being continuously in EVERY situation on the board.

 

So it's not REAL if there is no official gaming company rule which clearly shows you can't ever chase one or more pieces.  Rules are real if they are named in the instruction manual and it only states that you can't continuously chase one or more pieces. 

I even mailed this topic to a German ISF referee and he confirmed me that I had a valid point

but apparantly the logic doesn't take over.

 

Btw, it's also not real if a person, or an organization acts like a third party and decides to change or to adapt a rule for a product that they don't own in the first place.

 

Continuously chasing one piece and continuously chasing more pieces is not the same.

Technically you can't chase more pieces continuously at the same time.

Or you chase one piece non stop or you don't chase at all cuz' if you chase a second piece, it means that you stopped to chase the first piece.

 

 

So this may be not the truth according to the ISF but this stuff here is a true fact.

I guess it's just your perception of how to look at it,....a way of vision always dominates truth :)


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#16 Gaius Marius

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 07:17 AM

tickz, I have always wondered why you act like such a buffoon.  The fact that I'm willing to post this for all to see says that I want to know what the truth is.  I think you need to get off of your soap box of thinking you are superior in intellect.  The board game was made for fun and then money, the isf was made for competition.  Third partys rule many things and If we did not have a chase rule then the game would be meaningless to play.  Ive never lost a game in person, but on this I lost a lot in the beginning because the rules in person are soo easy to cause every game you may lose to end up being a draw.  I'm sorry you feel like everyone is set in their own ways and do not want the truth.  I am simply asking an admin what the correct way of playing is according to this site, and conventional stratego logic, then I will abide by the rules because that is the person I am.  I wish you would be more willing to think and not try to rap or get attention with condescending speech.  


"Everyone pities the weak, jealousy you have to earn."


#17 The Rainmaker

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 07:28 AM

Ah good points indeed



#18 The Prof

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 06:45 PM

Trickz, what is your position, that double chasing should be legal in any circumstance, or legal only when it is necessary to defend your flag?



#19 Napoleon 1er

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 07:33 PM

Hi Gaius Marius,

 

I thought about your case as you described it. If I understand everything correctly the flag was in the 3rd row in middle with no bombs around, your opponent was left with 2 captains and you with 2 miners and one sergeant. So with that situation if you play well you can only win. See the screenshot below summarizing the case. To win you have to bring one of your piece on left side of the flag, one on right side and 1 from the middle. Then you should make sure your 2 pièces on right and left are in diagonal of his captains. Then:

a) if it is your turn you move your sergeant from G4 to G3, if he moves his captain from E3 to F3 you move your miner from D2 to E2 and on next move you get the flag, if he moves his captain from G1 to G2 you move your sergeant from G3 to F3, he will be obliged to eat it with his captain from E3 to F3, on next move you move your miner from D2 to E2 then you have the flag

B) if it is his turn he has only 2 possibilities if he doesn't want to open you the path to the flag: either chase your miner on the right or chase it on the left. In this case wait until his captain moves from E3 to E2 and instead of moving your miner from D2 move your sergeant from G4 to F4. If he eats your miner in D2 you bring your sergeant to the flag, if he moves it back to F3 move either the miner from D2 to E2 or the sergeant from F4 to F3, he will be obliged to eat it and opens you the path for the other one.

 

If he was chasing you in the 2 opposite corners you should just bring him as far as possible from the flag and then sacrify one of the chased parts to move the 3rd one(the one that is not beeing chased). At a certain stage this 3rd piece will be closer to the flag than the chasing piece.

 

In this configuration with 3 lower strength pièces against 2 higher strength and the flag in the middle you can only win if you play well. So in this case I don't believe we can accuse your opponent of chasing.

 

That's just my observation but I'm open to any comment

 

Napoleon 1er


If you don't know where you go ... you have a lot of chance to arrive elsewhere ...


#20 trickz

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 08:22 PM

Trickz, what is your position, that double chasing should be legal in any circumstance, or legal only when it is necessary to defend your flag?

 

 

If it was up to me, then double chasing is always legal.

Most likely both players will prevent this but the times it happens (and it will happen ocassionally),...then it's always better for trying to get a draw with the double chase.

And in case the game gets stuck, early on for instance, then after an x count of same moves (don't know how the cpu has to recognize the same moves from the double chase), then it's an automatic tie.

So a double chase type player has no interests to keep on trying double chase cuz' it will go to a tie like that.

He only has interest when he's behind and a tie is the best result he can get.


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